Chen Xiaoping: Hello everyone
Todayfor the first time since we started filming in this new film studio,
skype we have invited a guest via Skype. Who's this guest?
It's Mr.Guo Wengui
production control room with Mr He Ping Ifilmed the first program in the
This afternoon Idid the first live guest program in the television studio
withMr.Meng Xuan.
The first guest to join us via Skype will be skype
Mr.Guo Wengui Our program director,please invite Mr.Guo Wengui
Hello,Mr.Guo
Guo Wengui (GW): Hello,Mr. Chen. Hello,audience of Mingjing
Hellotomytwitterfriends.
CX:You said a lot of hellos there
skype Asljust said,you're the first guest to join us via Skype
so this is a great honour for me.
new film studio,called Wayin Washi Yesterday we filmed a new video for the
57 You advertised us,saying that we're on 57th Street
Isuppose that generated a lot of exposure for us.
GW:Last night an elder official from Beijing said to me over the phone
You must've given money to He Ping's Mingjing TV
A few million US dollars?
isaidEven more than that. Mr. He Ping is very greedy.At least tens of billions of US dollars.
CX:This elder official's mindset fails to keep pace with the times.
Mingjing's ability tobeself-reliant He doesn't seem to be able to detect
The fact that we have survived in the market consistently over so many years
has been dependent on our ability to be self-reliant
You should pass on these words to the elder official
Ibelieve that after he watches this program
he will realize that Mingjing's capacity to be self-reliant is very strong.
thathasbeenreveredfordecades GW:Mingjing is a Chinese media outlet
and has withstood the test of the time for so long
the real can't be false and the false can't be real. Actually youhould maintaina firm belief that
Live your lives as you normally would. Don't be bothered by anything
Don't worry about others doubting the truth
CX:Before the program officially starts,Iwant to briefly digress
In the previous two episodes in which you joined us
you were wearing a suit. Today your outfitis different.
ls there any meaning to this
GW:Mr.Chenyou are very observant.Thank you
I'm wearing this today because you want to interview me about Pangu.
The hearing of this case is in the Xigang District Court of Dalian
. is incredibly important for me,my employees This is us,the Chinese people's business, and
their families,and the whole Pangu.
Overthese years,
my employees and family have shed blood,lost freedom
and been subjected to death threats,and we are finally here today. This is paramount.
This Chinese-style outfit was designed by me
Imade it in six different colors.I have worn three of them
This is the second time that l have worn this one.
VOA The first time was when lwas doing a live stream with VOA. This is the second time.
I think it's very meaningful. Firstlybecause this is a matter of critical importance to China.
Secondly, because this matter concerns us,the Chinese people
Thirdly,this outfit symbolizes how the incident has developed
Solquickly finished working out just now
then showered and put on this brand-new Chinese-style shirt.lt arrived only two days ago.
Even my underwear is new.
Iwas wearing this outfit whenlwas waiting to do this live interview. Thank you.
CX: There's some good news.I want to explain to the audience
our series of interviews with Mr. Guo Wengui Today's program is not the third episode of
but rathera program we inserted at the last minute
Astowhenthe third episode willbeaired
Iwill ask Mr. Guo Wengui to give you a clear answer in a minute.
Today we will talk about this hastily inserted program.
Why did we want to do this program
lt is because Mr. Guo Wengui had announced on his Twitter earlier today thatMy employees
will be attending the hearing for the Pangu case in Xigang District.
Dalian at 8:30 pm, New York time.
Mr.Guo Wengui posted this news on his Twitter first.
Now Ming Pao in Hong Kong and other overseas newspapers
have noticed this story
As soon as we heard the news
we immediately contacted Mr.Guo Wengui in order to
conduct a live interview.
CW:Thanks toMr.Chen.That's the case indeed.
CX: You have just talked about how you changed your outfits
You also announced the news on Twitter
You said you heard from your lawyer
that the legal procedure has been very standard
totally in accordance with legal standards and that the pre-hearing preparation has been
This fills me with hope and expectation. It sounds like very positive news.
Before you analyze this good news,I would like to ask first
what kind of case is this? Can you introduce it to the audience?
Who'stheplaintiffWho'sthedefendant
Specific details like this about thecase.
GW:Sure.Thank you Mr.Chen
I thought you would ask about my feelings first.
leven prepared eight words.But you didn't ask
· CX:Iwill ask about you feelings later.
GW:I don't know about you.Iwill answer your previous question first.
What's the current situation in regards to this case?
lwill answer your first question first. This case has been transferred
PolicetotheIntermediate Procuratorateof Dalian from the Special Investigation Team of the Dalian
been designated to hear this case. Now the Xigang District of Dalian has
This case mainly involves the entire staff of my company
16 16people. The three most important people
among them are thethree mostsenior executives.
The first to be involved is our CFO
Ms.Yang Ying
The second is our vice-general manager. We don't have a general manager
so he's the de facto general manager. This is Mr.Lu Tao.
The third is our financial manager
which is deputy director Mr.Jie Honglin
The first charge is loan fraud.
Load fraud,as stipulated under Article 175,the Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China 175
The second is the illegal acquisition of foreign exchange 2022
They are included in the latest Constitution
as revised in 2022.
Simultaneously prosecuted is every company under ourPanguCompanythelegal bodyof the enterprise,
by virtue of joint liability
Sonow it's these three people charged with these two crimes
Regarding the legal body of our Pangu Company.
thisis the current situation.
CX:Which loan fraud incident pertains to the charge of loan fraud?
49 Iknow that Caixin published a report on April 9th
32 referencing an enormous loan of 3.2 billion.
ls itrelatedto this incident
CW:Yes. Speaking of Caixin magazine
Ms. Hu Shuli learned about this incident earliest among all media
which covered this incident
Regardless as to whether it's true,so far none of my employees,
my family orl have received an indictment.
Neither have we seen any documents pertaining to our case.
is one hour before the hearing starts Until yesterdayand even at present which
we still haven't received anything. Ms.Hu Shuli at Caixin
mentioned loan fraud and foreign exchange fraud.What other charges are there?
There are only two left now.l'm very glad. Originally there were a lot of charges.
21 It is a good thing that only two charges remain among the initial21
various charges.
At the same time,we really don't know the basis of all these charges.
33 In the past 3 days-3 days
imy lawyer has talked to my family gradually about
the pre-hearing meeting held by the Public Security Bureau of Dalian
the Court of Dalian and the Procuratorate of Dalian
and some pre-hearing arrangements.
Ihave got some fragmented information
2010 It primarily involves the year of 2010..
Ican never remember dates.
Ihave no concept of chronology. They're my blind spot
Ialways confuse them.
I hope people will keep in mind this big shortcoming of mine.
mywife's or even my children's birthdays Idon't even remember my father's,my mother's,
Ihave a huge problem with times and numbers.
politicianoran entrepreneur,ora boss. In this respectI can't be either a
201032 So let's talk about 2010.We gota3.2 billion loan.
4342 We repaid approximately 4.2 billion.We didn't borrow 4.2 billion.
I suppose that Caixin's report gave us a verdict without tria
by declaring us guilty of loan fraud and foreign exchange fraud
and made it sound legit
The limited information that I have received in the past couple of days
is highly inconsistent with and different from Ms. Hu Shuli's report
Sol believe that Ms. Hu Shuli's claim to so-called insider information will prove to be false
when the case is tried and the information is publicized.
There'sa lot of exaggeration and fabrication in her story.
Thank youMr.Chen
CX:Iwant to ask about one thing-which is the website of Caixin
ltis said that after this story was published on Caixin,
32 the part about the 3.2 billion loan was later deleted.
Didyouknow
GW:Idid.Todaylreally don'twanttotalkabout
my attitude toward this case in detail
Because lam constantly advocating the rule of law.The trial for this case is not over yet
If I say too much about it,it will have negative influence on the trial.
Of course she deleted it.She ought to
Herstory was not legal anyway
The source of her information was also problematic.
She should not only delete it but also bearthe responsibility
on this loan fraud circulating outside CX: There's already some information
What's this charge of foreign exchange fraud about
Idon't seem to have seen any related reports.
GW:Honestlyy
9 At 9pm yesterday New York time
this kid who lives in Dalian and is responsible for taking care of
these arrested employees,such as picking up their lawyers
and families
the Xigang District Court of Dalian sent mea photo of an LED screen of
LED That was when learned about the time and venue for the trial.
-was very unhappy and angry
tellme what these two charges are about Ireally don't know why the lawyer can't
and what they involve.
10 Later,at 10pm last night,they sentmeafew documents
about pre-hearing arrangements.
I was a bit confused affter reading them.
Ireceived a few more this morning.I still haven't got allof them
-was confused too
Igenuinely don't remember certain things
butldefinitely remember this fact.
Whatis claimed to be a fact now is totally different from what l know
Totally.
Soldon't want to make comments on this matter
I'm very surprised by the charge of foreign exchange fraud.
When my company was based in Yuda,
Henan
50% it attracted 50%of Zhengzhou's foreign investments for
50% three consecutive years
60% The majority of the early stage investments,60%-70%
70% in my company in Beijing were from abroad.
Idare to say that I didn't move any funds from China to overseas.
investigation team has also checked People can check the accounts. The special
exchange fraud.Ibelieve it might be illegal lt's impossible that I committed foreign
But it's impossible tobe criminal.
The first defendant is Yang Ying
the second defendant is Lu Tao
and the third one is Xie Honglin
Itrust the three of them the most.
My management method is different from other companies
luse stocking-style management and never manage to the detail
Idon't want to talk too much about this
after seeing their remarks,files and documents yesterday
Ithink I'll talk about itinthe future
when the appropriate opportunity arises.l'm not sure about those things
They are totally different from whatlknow.
CX:Indeed. Everyone has got their information
on this trial from your Twitter feed,
LED which displays the information from the LED screen.
65LED It was disclosed on June 5th.The time for the defendant's hearing was on the LED screen.
Ichecked on the local court's website today
on this trial.But unfortunately trying to find out some public information
that this case will betried publicly. Ididn't find any information to suggest
The only source of information is you
LED but your information was displayed on the LED screen,
so it doesn't seem like a falsified notice of hearing
Let's suppose that there's such a notice.
21 Nowl want to go to the initial 21 charges
Now you are only indicted on two charges.
Do you think this is apositive indication?
GW:Yes.Imust say something about the changes in this case.
I think the officials who have communicated with me,both old and new,
have indeed shown me that China is moving toward the ruleof law
asladvocated in ways that I didn't know or didn't understand enough
Even though lam angered by injustices
and pursue the rule of law onlyl after I have been oppressed
by the law and treated unfairly
I think Ihave great experience and persuasive influence.
Ihave the capital.
But what has happened since the start of this case,
23 especially in the past 2,3 months,
has indeed taught me another lesson in the law
This new leader
this new official whenl post on Twitter Why do many Twitter friends not support
lwant to be honest.I won't say things just to flatter Twitter friends
I think some of the opinions of these new officials are very surprising
Thefirstregards theold official.
Idon't deny his contributions or thefactthat
he's very kind and that he has a good awareness of the law.
The new leader and the old leader supplement each other well.
The new leader put forward three points that l find very acceptable.
biggest dissatisfaction with this case. Firstlyhesaid,wantto know your
This is the first one.
soon as possible,minimize the costs, Secondly, how to solve these things as
response in accordance with the law rectify this and come up with afair
Thirdly, he clearly said,lwill listen to your opinions on this carefully
WhenIget back
Iwill carefully listen to all your detained employees opinions.
Then he quickly gathered facts established by the relevant investigators
and tried his best to handle this case based on this situation
This is why lhave this kind of feeling
Idon't want to say to the official,
Please release them and let them go home.I think this is against the law.
More importantly,I think learning about the truth of this case
and giving my employees a legal and fair result
is very important for the rest of their lives
Besides,I think since their families have waited for so long
soa few more days won't matter.
Ihope that they will get a legal and fair result in the end.
Thisis the most important thing for these family members.
This is where this case has gone. Especially in regards to the family members of our employees
whose reception and subsequent arrangements were handled humanly by the local police
the procuratorate and thecourt.
They carried out pre-hearing trials and arrangements
in accordance with the law
and did well in regards to management and notice
Apart from myself,the other family members
andwhat youjustsaid
what else aml positive about
It's the court of Dalian
involved this time and also the attitudes towards this case from Dalian's police,
procuratorate and court.
They seem very different from previously in their process
of communicating with our lawyers and the family members
HowdifferentNot because of the changes in their attitudes.
They are very serious,sincere
and professional;they ask very professional questions
and process things in accordance with legal procedures.
AII family members have said,
If our sacrifice can make this place handle cases in accordance with the law
and enablea legal result,wewill bevery glad.
This was not said by me.
Ican't represent all the employees' family members.
Thisis their feedback.
Ifeel very positive about this.
Thank you Mr.Chen.
CX:Your program has a huge following now.
Theelder official appears constantly
almost as often as the national traitors.
Iwould like toask
if you can tell us more information about this elder official.
GW:One of the elder officials is He Ping
Another is Chen Xiaoping. Just joking
Irefer to people Irespect as elder officials.
Forthis program,Ionce prepared myself totalk about
Mr.He Pingand Chen Xiaoping.So theelder officials
refer to the people involved in this case.
The people who communicate with me are the elder officials
lt's not one person or two.lt is several people.
The one who asked if l contributed a few million US dollars 57
to Mr.He Ping's luxurious office on 57th Street has been retired for 15 or 16 years
He contacts me occasionally 1516
Iwant to tell Mr.Chen here
when he learned about the news..
lt was this morning Whenlwoke up,my phone was full of messages from the media,
170 about 170 different media outlets
asking me if l knew that there was a case to be heard in Dalian
They were all very accurate.
Some media,including some from Hong Kong,were invited to Dalian to interview
Ididn't know this.lwasn't sure.
40 This afternoon,another forty-something media outlets
including Chinese media and foreign media, withthecombined totalbeing atover230 230
were asking me about this.
They were very concerned.
This elder official had certainly read manyofthedifferentmedia sources
His subordinates also reported on this matter He was very concerned.
So he called me to talk about this.
He said What kind of program will you do today He was very concerned.
Sol told him about it briefly
Isaid,Ihaven't got anyplans for it yet
Ibelieve it will attract alot of attention. But the elder official meant alot
thing had had a huge impact on society He said,as faras he knew,that this
He also said,the way this case has been handled
as he had heard,was creating a very positive phenomenon.
At this point,he asked me
Wenguibe honest with me.
What do you think the result will be and how do you feel about it?
I thought aboutit
and then I gave him one sentence to express my feeling
Then the elder official burst into laughter and hung up on me
CX:Apart from the elder officials,you also have disclosed information
about the pre-hearing preparation and the arrangements made for the family members
the elder officials and the younger official which offered me a new impression of
Whois the new leader?
GW:I won't tell you about him yet.
Iwill in the future when the opportunity comes.
20 Ihave known him for 20 years.
Imisunderstood him for a period of time
Since we restarted communication recently Ihave moved past the feeling of resistance
and even hostility Irealised that l was too impulsive
I think people need communication
The result of this waris still interdependence and co-existence.
One doesn't get rid ofanother
Ithink communication will help us avoid wars and misunderstandings.
lt also has a positive power which helps you reach your goals
This young leader
who I have mentioned in my live videos
has a strong legal awareness.
He also has personality that Ireally like.
The elder officials talk about the law more in theory. To be honest
they give earnest and sincere lectures
This new leader is the exact opposite.
He's very straightforward
and doesn't hide his own opinions on the matter.
Ilike it.
We almost had a conflict when we first meteach other
Later onIrealised that what he said made sense.
Because I'm best qualified to speak on whether he gives facts
ornot aboutmycase.
Heis able to put himself in my shoes
He is also able to put the case into perspective.
He doesn't speak empty with words.
Also,asl said just now, he is willing to hear my feedback to him
instead of giving orders.
The other elder officials tell me mostly about politics
and forms.
They give orders and also listen but don't really accept my opinions.
This new leader carefully listens
and reflects on what ltell him
And he emphasizes repeatedly
rights the state leaders have bestowed upon us that no matter what rights we have and what
this case must be handled inaccordance
withthelaw
Handling in accordance with lawis the rule of lawas advocated byme
This is the best response.lt also inspires positive energy for my employees,
society and the legal development of the country.
So he asked me, Why can't we make this into positive energy?
This remark moved me a lot at the time
During my interactions woth Beijing,
Irepeatedly told them that Ididn't want to disclose or get on the opposing side.
I don'twant to choose apath
where I can't turn around.
Butl won't give up my pursuits.
Could you please listen to my facts instead of me only listening to you
lalso repeatedly request
for what the new official said.
Why can't we make this positive energy
icould totally make this positive energy.
Whatl want is just what the Constitutionof the PRC
bestows upon us and what the Criminal Lawof the PRO
cannotbeconsidered excessive is there to protect. Thus my demands
are consistent with the law and have a legal basis The new official said,As long as your demands
Iwill definitely respond to you. And we can set atime.
· Iwill definitely respond to you before the time.
have been working on for the past 6 months I'm very moved by the fact that the casel
now finally has a timeframe.
Mr Chen is totally different.
Secondly, he saidDon't think we will be scared of you
just because you disclose information.
Then you use it against us.Nodefinitely not.
Even if yourincident has raised our strong awareness of your case
we will still handle and try it in accordance with the law.'ldefinitely accept this.
Thirdly,it' whatlsaid about making this thing
a good thing with positive energy
Istrongly agree with this.laccept it completely
This is why the new leader fills me with expectation
andIfeel gratitude towards the elder officials
These are necessary elements and a necessary process for the case.
Thank you Mr.Chen
CX:Having heard what you have just said,l'm very glad
Even though you didnt mention his name,
you mentioned that this new leader has an ideal of the rule of law.
I'm very glad,as someone who studied law.
Indeed.l'm gladto hear this
for the first time during an interview Just likel was very glad too,when,
Iheard that humans must have dignity
Isaid that the Chinese people should have dignity indeed.
But some people criticized me for being moved by you
I told them that Imust be moved.
I'm also moved by the prospect of the elder officia
and the new leader being genuine as you just described
even though you didn't give his name.
Because under my impression,the regime in Beijing-national traitors
in your words-are very arrogant
and have no idea of what the rule of lawis.
away from the civilization of the rule of law. My famous quote is that they're 10,000 years
If your story actually becomes a symbol of the
rule of law,of courselwould be glad.
Iwould like to learn from this
new leader sometime.
These are my thoughts at the moment.
I would like to ask a follow-up question about leaders
Apart from elder and young leaders,
you also talk aboutan elderelder official
Who's he
GW:lt's funny that you ask that.
Iattended a meeting with the relevant US government departments
today about mysecurity issues.
measures for me. During the meeting They provide a series of protection
they asked me,Mr. Guo,can we ask you aquestion?
Whois your elder,elder official?' The same question as you asked.
lt was very interesting when they asked this.
10 Because 10 days ago
this younger officiall mentioned called the senior executive
under the previous US administration who was in charge of the judiciary
who has impacted hugely on the judicia cooperation in Sino-American relations.
Ican't give his name.I respect him a lot.
He collaborated well with Secretary Meng Jianzhu
and China's public security organs,procuratorates and courts.
But now he has withdrawn. He talked to me with a meaningful look
saying he knew the old leader that I was talking about
and he knew the new leader as well.
78 He saidThat's because about a week ago,he gave me a phone call
and asked for my help
He said he has gone back to his hometown and he was not in New York
so he gave him a reply.
He saidGuo's philosophy is not just protecting
the United States government and American institutions
but you as well, as we've been friends for a very long time.
And I especially appreciate and admire your friends,
you to be extradited back to China. despite the fact that some of them want
Hetold methattherearepeople
who genuinely support you, such as Guo Wengui
Hewas quite shocked to realize that
news reports aren't refiecting the truth.
He asked theold leader.Theold leader saidWhy would you say that
I've known Guo Wengui foe 20 years. I know this guy.
You can get the truth out of his history
work,family background and friends
Don't trustthemedia.'
Speaking of this friend of mine,lam moved.he said
Then he gave me the name of the old leader
person that we were talking about and I confirmed that it was the same
while as our English aren't that great After that we talked privately fora
Wewere both fervent towards the conversation
This old leader is well-respected in the United States Ibelieve that have almost got the full picture of the case.
and he's righteous.
new leader have great relationships Moreover,both the old leader and the
with the United States government and society.
It helps a lot in understanding Guo Wengui's case.
Iwill reveal the old leader's name at the right time
This old leader has no direct relationship with the newleader
However,they are probably on the same side.
Itis greatly helpful to Wengui's case. Thank you Mr.Chen.
the three areas concerning the leaders Chen Xiaoping: Right,I've finished discussing
Let's get back directly to the case.
We learned that before the accusations
which was also the time when you leaked information in Beijing
the defendants
Lu Tao and your financial director have all appeared on videos
talking about the3.2 billion loan fraudulently obtained 32
This video gives us a feeling
that the financial director's eyes are red
and he wears what seems to be the uniforms of detention center.
See,when he was being interviewed,
he said that you guys are fraudulently obtaining a loan,and that Lu tao
it seems that he was trying to shape things that way
In a sense,this video echoed with the news report from Caixin
released by the government.
lt seems that the government
has already made its conclusion on the case before it is heard.
In this manner,
what predictions do you have on the case?
Guo WenguiAs I've just said,lam positive towards the case.
Ihave confidence in that.
This case eventually will have an end,
which is very important.
The video you were talking about
itis most definitely the work of Fu Zhenghua
lt was arranged by the Commission for Discipline Inspection
lam sure that was not arranged by whoever is in charge of the case.
Thisis whylsaid that we have to separate the three relationships
Heis inaway anation traitor strictly speaking, he is nothing as such.
We have to make a clear separation among the people in the government;
secondly we have to separate Fu Zhenghua's from my case.
Fuand thepeople from the CDI
have to be separated from mycase.
them interfere with us,hence they have to beseparated Because now they (the old and new leaders) won't let
my case have to be treated separately Thirdly,the goal thatlaim to achieve and
These three things cannot be discussed as a whole,
they are all related somehow but none of it can determine the other one
the three aspects cannot be treated as one.
On top of the relationships among the three aspects
we have to pay attention to their history, and we have to understand theprocessof the development of the case.
· Hence,we see the video of Yang Ying
and Lu Tao.
FuZhengHua breached thelaw
and he could be incriminated.
He has to make himself clear to the society.
just like what both of the old and new leaders said to me.
What Fu did,Imade myself clear to him
the other day that they have to give me an explanation
The first concern is if this practice is legal,
if it complies with the Law of the People's Republic of China
You had revealed the details of the case
and declared me guilty when it hasn't yet been heard.
In addition, you let the litigant testify Guo Wengui in court.
of handling a case nor with the Law at all This neither complies with common regulations
let alone humanitarianism,right
Anyone whois smart is not going to believe
any of the things said in this live-streamed interview
Whyis that
there are around a hundred thousand, Guo Wengui casually streams a video and
four hundred thousand,and nine hundred thousand views.
And for the video concerning Yang Ying Lu Taoand Ma Jian,thereis merely ten
totwenty thousand views
Some foreigners even say that they don't care about it and they don't believe it at all.
A few senior government officials have told me that
this is the China that they see,
this video shocks them the most,
the MOST.
lam baffled.lasked them why they are shocked at all
in the United States and in the Occident. He says it is not legally acceptable anywhere
People's Republic of China was established Then he asked when the Law of the
Isaid it was influenced
1922 by Soviet's socialist law and introduced to China.
Mr Xiaopingyoustudy law.
1978 ThenI mentioned it is not until 1978 thatwe have Criminal Law in China.
lt took around eight years to execute it.
8090 The Civil Law appeared in the 1980s and 1990s.
isaid the Chinese legislation system is not sound
and it is still developing.Personallyljust can't bearit
Ireckon it is illegal,but lam not shocked
solasked them why they are gobsmacked.
To Westerners,to make a show of and accuse someone through
live-streamed videos is considered an enormous crime
thatis the Occident.
It has already transcended moral issues,
that's whylam full of hopewith thenewleader
and theold leader
To him,it is completely wrong
completelywrong
And they think it is vital to draw a conclusion on the case
in this manner,Irespect thema lot.
That also explains why the case has been well-handled
under legal procedures after they take over the case.
Andas everyone is aware of,
there are some cases I shouldn't have ideas about,simply
because of the fact that lam a litigant insome of the cases
Up to now,all of the emphasizes and statements
made by lawyers and family dependents
are following legal procedures
They are doing as promised,which is very important.
Lawis never based on private concerns from the beginning to the end
with private interests and private relationships itis of critical importance. We can't represent law
Those three videos are privately-oriented
They want to influence on Chinese political environment.
No matterwhat
we have to comply with legal procedures
As faraslam concerned,being aggressive shouldn't be for private interests but public interest,
thatexplains whylam hopeful.
Itreat this case seriously
· lbelieve that it is going to set a good example,Mr. Chen
Chen Xiaoping: Putting into perspective the background of these two accusations that
you had already mentioned,
Itend to agree with your positivity
21 21 accusations are curtailed to 2 accusations- fraudulently
obtaining a loan and foreign currency.
Ihave no idea on the fraudulence in obtaining foreign currency
butlam aware that relatives are crucial. According 32 to Caixin's news,3.2billion dollars are involved
40 And you have paid back more than 4 billion dollars,in advance,
and it hasn't brought any legal consequences.
Strictly following the Law
the accusation of fraudulently obtaining a loan shouldn't berelated tocriminal law
but it should be considered as a criminal case in a sense.
Ihave a feeling that this case may declare light sentences.
Having this prediction in mind
Ican understand your positivity towards the case.
Iwant to raise a question
So you revealed and leaked information to third parties
do you find the silver lining of rule by lawas wished?
Ordo youthink there arepositive interactions
between old and new leaders ora sort of compromise?
Do you regard it a great change overall
Guo Wengui Thanks for your question Mr Xiaoping,it's a good question.
Ican't buy your viewpoint
Idon't think there is an absolute relationship between the revelation of information
and the hearing of the case.
Iwill say the same thing to everyonelbelieve
This is the result of Guo Wengui's own revelation He has to lie in the bed that he has made.
To be honest,l understand why they would say it
but thatis not the truth andIcan't accept it
What is the biggest problem of the case
according to the old leader
thatwhichIdid intend to leave itto you Since you didn't ask me anything on
I'm going to say it out myself.
The core problem of the case is the overdue detention
overdue detention
All the problems of the Chinese legislation involve overdue detention.
And the other problem is that the detention is not being solemn
core problems of the Chinese legislation when compared to legislation systems of other countries. and the torturing for testimony. These are the
Itis the most critical and the most vulgar.
And itis also the greatest conflicts between common people
and those who are in power and work for the government.
person's right and freedom is stripped away Lawis enforced at one's own will.A
and human rights are not respected. Humanity is ignored.
These employees of mine,they have held them up for two years and eight months,two years and six months
respectively. There're still three months to go and two years and seven months
even if you can't squeeze anything out from themyou got to release them once they are held for three years.
left for them to be held in detention at the maximum time Or they should just sentence them there are still a few months
Therefore,for this case,whether I decided to expose or not,to so called fight' for changes or not,
it wouldn't make any changes to the lawsuit. Everything has been settled from the beginning
175 that thereis still the article 175 of thelaw Anyone who know about the law would know
Can you hear me Mr.Chen?
· Chen Xiaoping: Yeslcan hear you.
175· Guo WenguiInarticle 175of the law
175 it states clearly that,the amount concerning the fraudulence in obtaining a loan has to be huge
32 And3.2 billion would be huge enough.
the bank to make a loss,if huge loss And it also states that it has to cause
not consequences
and it has to influence the society or to the bank badly
soas to be sentenced to 3 years to 7 years,or over 7 years of imprisonment. 377
And nowlcan say with certainty that we didn't cause the bank a loss at all
10 On the other hand,leven brought 1 billion dollars of interest to the bank
orconsequences brought to the society Secondly, there isn't any bad influences
And on our side,Ican't spot out any proves on frauds.
lam completely unaware of that.
toearn their salaryto get their bonus, They are just a bunch of kids whowant
to get the loan done.And even the chairman of the company
would like to show me their outstanding performance in business.
Every loan made in China is somehow involved with the so called fake seal',
fake documents'. You can execute me,
if thereis anyone who dare reject that. Guo WenguiandI will admit the accusations
But that's impossible,the banking system in China forces you to commit crime.
and you made her swear to god that she is a virgin Take an example,you get a girl out from a brothel
And if you believe that she is a virgin
well then obviously that's yourproblem
You are the one who forced this prostitute to claim that sheis a virgin
prostitute because she has no choice. or you force her to say she has to
So itis out of question that the boss has made
186 every single official seal
186 among the 186 of them.
· let alone to check them all by himself
186 In China you'll have to get 186 seals for a single loan,
200 for some of the smaller businesses, you'll have to get over 200 seals.
I'm not the one who runs the business
I'm just a controller of the company,the actual operators are them.
so how would the crime be possible to exist?
Therefore,in this obtaining loan by fraudulent document charge, 175
every serious consequence mentioned in the article 175 isn't applicable in this case.
And this case has come to the place where it has to be handled,
it's just a matter of how you would handle it.And from the lawsuityou canseethat
they chose to prosecute the Beijing Pangu Investment Company Limited
Our lawyers have communicated with the law enforcement on my behalf as the juridical persons;
wemade thepromise to involve departments that
our company will plead guilty to the illegal acts from the past operations
You cannot deny it
The fake seal incident does exist,forsure.
And there is truth within this lawsuit and the results but most definitely not within theprocess.
The procedures are fake.
judiciary and social environment in China At the same time it has to accord to the current
. China MinSheng Bank and other banks, As I've said,the loan we obtain from
we have obtained loans from other bank as well.
Idon't think common case'is enough to describe it You have to say that this problem is a common case.
tosay that an inevitable phenomenonis illegal it is an inevitable phenomenon. lf you really need
aprostitute or force aprostitute to claim she's virgin that it has no difference with forcing a woman to become
175 Therefore l think we can accept the case based on the article 175 of the law
penalty for breaking the law,so as Guo Weugui and at the same time our company is willing to face
This is one of the reasons why the rred notice'is given out.
laccept an economic penalty to a certain amount.
And for the charges on fraudulency in obtaining foreign currency.
lam going to be frank,
up to nowl still have not had a single clue on when did I commit such a crime?
obtaining foreign currency by fraudulent means, If our company committed the crime of
then there would be no purchase of foreign currencybyfraudulentmeans in thewholeChina.
have any problem in the concern of fraudulence. Our company's purchases of foreign currency don't
But it is possible to breach the law in a way during the purchase
No matterwhat,
we are willing to attend the hearing and we will see what the sentences are.
proceed according to the law,thank you Mr.Chen It's all becausel believe that they will actually
Chen Xiaoping:As you have a rather optimistic prediction towards this trial
Ibelieve that you will agree with whatever the court's sentences are.
In that sense
the truth is going to be shown on legal documents,after all
Then we would be able to know what the truth is.
Wecan see
if rule by law can be incarnated in this case.
Let every people around the world to know the truth
authenticity of your story through this lawsuit letthem learn a bit more about the
It would make a better example
to make a special request to every Twitter friend, Guo Wengui: Yes,Ibelieve it would. Thuslwant
toeverycurrent affair commentator
I've just watched Mr Guo Baosheng's commentary lt was excellent
lam here to ask you to please study calmly at this case,
and don't put your personal thoughts into the case.
I hope you can look at this case with a clearand cool mind
I specifically hope that
revelation of information to the Communist Party no one is going to connect the case to the
claims,and you insult his act to reveal information You're trying to harm Wengui if you're making those
GuoQitiaotheseven principle of Guo The core of his disclosure is for
in which one of them is rule by law.
is to oppose to fighting corruption with corruption AndI have much higher goals above that which
These are great goals to achieve. and fighting corruption with triad force'i
And this case,as I've said,itjust has tocome toanend,
it has to be heard whether I leak information or not.
three years detention time has almost been completely served. Then I hope they will hear the case as soon as possible,as the
Whatever crime they have committed,as l've just said
175 through the article 175 of the law and the Supplementary provisions of Article 1 of the Chinese Criminal Law,
they should be sentenced probations or released in court.
And todaywe have a great news to tell you all
its about the oldest of one of the detainees,which is Mr.Lin Qiang
who has been detained for 2 years and6 months. 6
Mr. Lin's prosecution has been officially revoked,he has regained his freedom
40 and he has lost 40 kgofweight
lam very worried about him he should have returned home today
He has been detained for over two years for non-civil service bribery
100 He took amillion yuan brokerage from our corporate financing
and his prosecution has been revoked,he has returned home.
Forthe dozen others,three of them have their hearing today
and Lin Qiang's has been revoked
The rest of them will have their trial results within the following days
all of them have been detained from a year to two years
and 6 months.
learn the sentences in the following days Forthe majority of them l believe they'l
and these people,no matter what,well have to accept one thing
I've accepted the trial that proceeds according to law
andI believe my employees and their families will accept it as well,
this has been going on for 2 or 3 years already
The wives of Xie Honglin and Lu Tao
and Yang Ying's son have taken the greatest hit
Iheard from them for the first time this morning
I've sent them audio messages yesterday on their requestsi
our company has sent alot of people there to be there with them.
hop over,which a ritual to burn all the misfortunes away They said they want to help set upa fire tray for them to
after they'rereleased
At the same time, hope they wont be too in grief or agitation
terms of transportation, food and beverages, and clothes.. After that,our company will have unified arrangement in
time please mind your words to the public. Please don't be too agitated,and at the same
What the families of my employees said next touched my heart,
they saidMr. Guo,we will accept the trial no matter what itis."
Forthepastfewdays
or during this period of time
Ihave felt that rule by lawis starting to emerge
and we are treated with respect and with humanity
the case have explained it very clear The lawyers and officers that are on
solcan't represent how all of my employees and their families felt
Icannot fully representthem
But our employee's families represent their feelings.
thatis why lhave such positive view,
and at the same time why lask our Twitter friends to stop saying this is the result of my revelation of information
this wasn't initiated by my revelation
If you have to make this into an extreme political issue
then it would be a great insult to our Twitter friends and to me.
We have been working so hard all these days and ourdisclosure hasahighergoal to reach-
we hope that China can gain judicial independence,and is monitored by the media
We hope that there are less incidents like Guo Wengui's. The target has always been set on nation traitors.
We're not just asking for these people to go home,or to besentenced
shouldn't be easily satisfied with these these will inevitably happen.We
Then we would be lack of aspirations and make us the greatest enemy
of the People's Republic of China
which would be unnecessary.
Hence,I would like to ask all the Twitter friends and current affairs commentators
not to demonize this event,and notto make it political
Don't forget our core value GuoQiTiao as well.
our support to the old leader and thenew leader. And we should give encouragements and show
· Wengui hereby ask you all to acknowledge and appreciate their work.
Thank you all.And thank you,Mr.Chen.
Chen Xiaoping:l would like to add that
in lawthere isa legal term called Influential case,
which described cases that can be seen asa milestone
to promote rulebylawin China
Then people wonit see the case as your own fight
they will see your case
asa construction to the legal system
Thereforel hope my words can be heard by the old leader,new leader,and the older leader
This case is a process of pushing the PRC towards rule by law
towards judicial independence,and towards legal civilization.
In this manner
I strongly believe that people won't take this case
as a result of your disclosure.
Guo Wengui:Mr.Chen,let me answer this in general,
I'm just going to say afewwords.
How should we regard this case
The old and new leaders have been compromising
in terms of angle of view and attitude
which is very important.
Ihave to thank all of our Twitter friends.
be possible without our Twitter friends spreading the news. Just as you've said,it's an influential case. That wouldnt
Though the power of a single twitter friend is small.
have formed is crucial in processing The influence that the twitter friends
this a trial according to law,and in speeding it up
This is with no doubt.It's neither because they're scared
nor they worry that you will keep revealing more information.
It is the civil justice and the public influence of you all that has made an impact on the case to make itfairer
it also fosters rule bylaw
And more importantly
traitors, you've shown them civil justice it may have made a great impact on nation
Thatis whylsaid that our Twitter friends have to be calmer than ever.
Our unity andcalm
will keep nations traitors away
and we may even bring them to justice.
Let us strive for our goals and reach them as fast as possible.
At the same time
we have to show the Party and our national leader the positivity and the righteous in this case
And that's whylagree
on the three points that were raised by the old and new leaders
lam sure this case will set a good example for China in terms of
rule by law.
lbelieve the Twitter friends pushed us towards rule by law
we have won in the fight for our next generation's dignity andsafety
As for our enemy
the nation traitors,they are immensely shocked
Fu Zhenghua in particular. Thank you Mr.Chen
Chen Xiaoping: Rightl will finish asking questions concerning the case here.
Now,I'm going to ask you a question on behalf of our network friends
and my Twitter followers.
For your third episode of Mingjing interview.
can you introduce us about the current situation
Asl know there are some changes of dates,
can you tell us some information about the third episode
Guo Wengui:Ok Mr.Chen,
soltold Mr. He to tell youthat
Iwould like the third episode to be broadcasted on the 6th of June. 6
And because we were notified about the case was heard in Dalian
to testify so we have the broadcast postponed. our lawyer said we might have to go to court
16 So,we have decided to delay it to around 16th June
there is a series of decision I have to make We haven't decided on the exact date as
just as I've mentioned to you todayI have to attend meetings with involved government departments.
lt's about the decision of whether not to accept the protection offered by the United States.
12 And we have a meeting on 12th June with the Fund Management
I have to decide on whether l should resign my role as the director of various funds
and the role as an investment committee.
At the same time,we are making huge investments in other countries
And one last thing that affects my next step
is how Chinese government handles this case.
lt is critical.
After all of my employee's court hearings
Ibelieve we will have a unified arrangement for all of these
which include the way to handle my assets,and a series of events
including theRed Noticefrom theInterpol
There will be an intermediate summary
it will affect my trust fund's meeting and whether l should accept the judicial protection
Ibelieve in this new leader.
force in promoting rule by law and anti-corruption He said he hope this event will become a positive
It will be a good example for future cases as well.
, If we can achieve that,then all those things would be nicely handled.
Then,I won't need the protection.
AndI won't need to resign from the trust funds
and the investment committee.
And we will continue making enormous investments
in China and within Asia.
16 to the 16th or one day or two later than that. Therefore our third episode will be postponed
Ibelieve what we need to further discuss
on is my revelation on national traitors
and to share some critical evidences,and some new clues
I'm not going to disclose too much details on the third episode,
but Ican assure you that it won't disappoint you.
And this case will become a milestone. Thank you Mr.Chen
Chen Xiaoping: Rightour interviewwith Mr.Guo willend here
and the third episode will be broadcasted soon as planned
Ihope the verdict of today's hearing of your employees
willbe as positive as you've expected it to be.
· We will have to wait andsee.
Guo Wengui: Thank you Mr.Chen
LastlyI'd like to borrow your platform to speak to my Twitter friends,
Dear Twitter friends,please be aware that there have been alot of
claim-to-be Guo Wengui's Twitter accounts
Ihope you guys can manage to follow the real one.
Youtube And at the same time, don't forget to subscribe to my channel when you're watching my video on Youtube.
Don't forget to hit the subscribe button.
Thirdly,I'd like to tellallof my Twitter friends that
the third episode will last longer than usualthe content will be very rich
We have to get into details especially when we are discussing with Dr. Chen Xiaoping,the Doctor of Law.
And Mr. Chen's showis a must-watch for me
Mr. HePing's and Mr. Baosheng's show as well are a must-watch
They are meaningful shows
Those shows have widened my horizon in areas of law and media.
They have helped me find out the truth too
57 AndI believe Mingjing which now has 57 luxurious offices
has become more mature.
Andl believe the Chinese media industry willjustbecome healthierand healthier.
Ihere to appeal to all of my Twitter friends
to deem the court hearings of my employees in Dalian seriously
and to follow the case until it is brought to an end.
lam looking forward to settling this case a good example
of rule by law.
Andlalso hope my employees and employees'families well.
Their new life will begin today
What they have been through was too tough.
Lastly,I'd like to thank Mr. He Ping and Mr Chen Xiaoping
forall of your comments made to me in the show.
AndIwant to thank my Twitter friends for your sincere support.
We should be grateful for GuoQiTiao as well.
Guo and thanks our network friends. Chen Xiaoping: Right,thank you Mr
We'll see you in the next broadcast.